tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12948038.post7453557335112443048..comments2023-07-29T09:15:17.416+01:00Comments on allan's blog - Agile & Digital Business: Agile and Lean - the same but differentallan kellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06262139490250478379noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12948038.post-58630268355541873332009-02-27T14:23:00.000+00:002009-02-27T14:23:00.000+00:00Hi Allan,The problem is the labels and using them ...Hi Allan,<BR/><BR/>The problem is the labels and using them to selling ideas. To sell something you need to label it and yo also need to differentiate it from the competition. Interestingly the Japanese do not have labels like Lean, Agile, Six Sigma, TQM etc. These were all invented in the west.<BR/><BR/>In reality no off-the-shelf process will solve all your problems for you and there will always be gaps that you will need to fill in yourself. I like your pyramid, and it fits with how I use these ideas. I especially like your bottom tier of organisational learning, which I presume refers to the teachings of Edward Deming.<BR/><BR/>If practices at the top of the pyramid do not address my needs then I fall back on the values and philosophies lower down inorder to come up with practices of my own that do. I got this idea from Kent Beck in XPE1.<BR/><BR/>Interestingly the joins aren't seamless. For example, Lean Thinking places a big emphasis on the principle of eliminating waste. This emphasis is much less prominent in Agile, where the emphasis is on amplifying learning.<BR/><BR/>I believe this is why Kanban doesn't neatly fit into the pyramid. Whilst Agile builds on the values and philosophy of Lean Thinking, it has also derived an emphasis, principles and practices of its own that are deemed appropriate to software development. Kanban isn't an attempt to fill in the gaps, but rather an attempt to replace Agile with something else - Lean.<BR/><BR/>I think this is a mistake. Higher up the pyramid you go, the more prescriptive the practices become, and the more taylored they are to the context of software development. We shouldn't be looking to replace software principles and practices with manufacturing ones. <BR/><BR/>Paul.Paul Beckfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16046651614960778254noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12948038.post-19856674748915603602009-02-16T11:02:00.000+00:002009-02-16T11:02:00.000+00:00My feelings exactly. I was at the presentation at ...My feelings exactly. I was at the presentation at XPDay and also can't remember the exact quotes, but can substantiate your inference with the post I wrote <A HREF="http://blog.robbowley.net/2008/12/14/i-dont-care-whether-you-call-it-lean-or-agile/" REL="nofollow">here</A>. I have recently been getting annoyed with David Anderson trying to make a polar distinction between Agile and Lean. In my mind they're close enough to being the same thing that it's not worth arguing the toss!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com